Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: January 4th 16:00 UTC

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
16:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights
   • FCMP’s, Serai, Luke "KayabaNerve" Parkers call for a Post Quantum XMR & what he means by “stepping back"
   • MiCAR and the Monero ecosystem - midipoet
   • MAGIC Monero Fund elections open - Register to vote by 31st!
     News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - Monero Moon
4. CCS updates
   b. tipxmr: deprecate and repurpose funds | XMRChat - a service for content creators to receive messages and tips in Monero.
   c. NoShore: Groundwork for on-the-go offline payments
   g. dmvp2p: Donate Monero Via P2Pool
   h. Funding Proposal for Unstoppable Wallet: Enabling Native Monero Integration on iOS & Android
   i. Revuo Monero Maintenance (2025 Q1)
   j. Haveno Multi OS App proposal termination
   k. Draft: Newyears resolutions
5. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2025
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   g. Research workgroup
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
6. Open ideas time
7. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

Logs

< plowsof > ⛏️

< m​onerobull:matrix.org > Meeting today?

< plowsof > yes in 1hr57 mins #1133

< plowsof > i mean 57 mins

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > I'm completely new, so take the following with a grain of salt:

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > I would like to propose an agenda item.

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > I founda a FTBFS:

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > monero-project/monero#9678

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > I'm completely new, so take the following with a grain of salt:

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > I would like to propose an agenda item.

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > I found a FTBFS:

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > monero-project/monero#9678

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Wait wut

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Wasnt there one last week

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Wut is this

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > dormouse community meetings arent dev meetings

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > No need for a meeting for that. Someone will look into it, as they do all reported issues on git

< d​ormouse:matrix.org > Alright then, thanks tor letting me know.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > thx for report

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Lol, nope. I'm a week off 🫠

< nioc > wait until ofrn finds out that we are in a new year ಠ_ಠ

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > 👀👀

< plowsof > Meeting time #1133

< plowsof > speaking of the new year, happy new year everyone, greetings!

< msvb-lab > Hello saluton.

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Happy new year!

* m-relay <d​ormouse:matrix.org> lurks and learns

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Merry Christmas

< plowsof > the floor is open to highlight any recent goings on

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > @monero still being a weirdo

< plowsof > the voting for MAGIC candidates will begin on the 6th https://magicgrants.org/funds/monero/

< plowsof > this was randomly removed by reddit again and re-approved: MiCAR and the Monero ecosystem - midipoet

< plowsof > has @monero at least tweeted monerokons CFP? https://www.monerokon.org/

< d​oedl...:zano.org > mass-reported I guess?

< plowsof > possibly, i've not looked into what happened there

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > qtip has launched 2-4 new websites (in addition to the 3-8 he already has) to try to undermine out communities and fundraising

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > mostly ai generated content, as one would come to expect

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > new proposals for funding: https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > our = various ecosystem contributors

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the moneronews site is ridiculous. a few of our best crustaceans 🦀 had a good lauch at the cuprate article there

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > laugh*

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > it's directly linked to a monero fund phishing site 🙅

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Qtip's proposal is still open afaik. Havent checked 2day

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/536

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > its tied @ 1-1 sorry

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > imo it really makes us look weak if we don't know how to say "no" and stand on it

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Its 8-1

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the decision has already been made to terminate https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/536#note_28079

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > we voted close a month ago

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Whatever happens after closing is a diff discussion

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Yet it hasnt happened

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Luig did merges and seems to have forgotten to close kewbits

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Qtips*

< d​oedl...:zano.org > did ppl start to sign each others gpg keys - as a response to the "drama" ?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > initial feedback from 3 separate arrived recently. basically confirming most of what the community had accused of but no official statements so far (remember, this is all a conspiracy and the contractor is being targetted by the reto cabal etc)

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > None of which matters. The cpde theybare reviewing is 1. A resource hog 2. Not the same codebase that he tried to get paid for

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > https://librejo.monerodevs.org/nahuhh/haveno-app/compare/manymen...main

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > heres comparison of the requested pay codebase vs the one being reviewed that was submitted after the vote

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Anyway, just speaking up since its being extended for like 2-3 months since the first infractions

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > it's terminated* all that remains is the wording of the termination to be ironed out here and there etc, a formality. but, terminated

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > let the record state that Rucknium was the first person to sign their ccs payout address

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Its not terminated for as long as its still on the WIP section of ccs.getmonero.org

< d​oedl...:zano.org > i get it - I m totally off with this

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > will get https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/536 merged asap

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > We can move to next subject tho

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > lets get into the CCS ideas instead of spending time on Q

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Tob, 0xffc, jberman dev ccs' were all merged and up for funding. Don't want to overshadow those

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > apologies

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - Monero Moon

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > gingerops was funded too , RAM for MRL to crunch numbers with 👏

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > b. tipxmr: deprecate and repurpose funds | XMRChat - a service for content creators to receive messages and tips in Monero.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > fiatdemise created a room #self_hosted_xmrchat:matrix.org where someone has joined to test out the setup docs

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > are these proposals being treated as 1 : merged together (repurposed funds + further work) OR repurposed funds awarded and treating the further work as separate?

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > I'm in favor of repurposing 100% of tipxmr's funds, but with our terribly track record with repurposed ccs i think verification is ideal

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > hi FiatDemise , has @dormouse:matrix.org had a look, does anyone know who dormouse is, forgive me, first im hearing this name

< f​iatdemise:matrix.org > Dormouse is someone that Snex recommended to me

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Snex (banned) has contributed to the project and tested it a few months ago

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > path 1: 100% tipxmr funds to to xmrchat + the further work milestones go to funding

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > path 2: 100% tipxmr funds to go xmrchat. further work proposal is separate.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > after verification (with the last time we repurposed funds in mind)

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Also in favor of unbanning snex. Been a long time and he contributes to the ecosystem. I havent seen strange behavior from in channels where he's activr incl simplex and basicswap

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > path 3. Full proposal goes to funding and is partially funded directly

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Dont want to advertise the ccs as if its a lower amount than it is. A donation to the ccs should be made from the jetfund in amount of tipxmr's leftovers

< plowsof > path3 would be == path 1

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Then path 1/3

< plowsof > verification of sources first then

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > oh merge path 1 immediately and payout upon verification?

< f​iatdemise:matrix.org > I'm good with all verification

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > seems the sane option, donors can fund the outstanding amount

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > moving on?

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > yes

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thanks for feedback

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > c. NoShore: Groundwork for on-the-go offline payments

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > I dont think this is well thought out

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > This one's a weird one. Not sure if I understood correctly, but what's the point in offline payments on the go?

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Its a no from me in current form

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > I agree, Seems like there is an architecture in mind but not well put. As of now i see it as LWS++

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > To me, not so much "whats the point" but the the offline side needs like 3 different tools for it to work. Doesnt seem realistic at all

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Why not just use a normal hot wallet? What does this CCS even solve?

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > "User has phone in airplane mode"

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > He want to avoid the syncing requirement, and offload it to a backend => LWS+Broadcast for user as a service

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > So open your wallet before going out and let it sync.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > you grand parent won't do that

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > > A step towards enabling our grandparents to transact Monero;

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > But still requires another online device to reconcile outputs

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Now lws tho.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Not*

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > They probably also won't be using Monero.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > yeah but in practice its the same

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > stop the if, a proposal and idea is always based on if

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > I don't see how this is more simple than just using a hot wallet.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > i see the point and potential but not well put imo

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > you literally can pay without internet connection.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > i dont see how this is simple* or viable

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > this could enable things like credit card

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Same.

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Or even desirable.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > yup, don't see it as simple, but i see it as viable

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > just my two cents

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > I'd like to see a poc. Honestly doesnt seem like a project that will succeed in implementation due to many hurdles in usability

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > A demo would be useful.

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > I just don't see the problem that its supposed to solve.

< d​oedl...:zano.org > AFAIK offline signing wont work this way.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > a poc seems a good suggestion for this (no reason to vote merge/close at this time?)

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > yo we got zano.org user

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > epic

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > I think the creation of it is simple, not the product

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > yes, no vote

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > The product is convoluted

< r​ucknium:monero.social > IMHO, someone with complete knowledge of the Monero protocol like jeffro256, jberman, moneromooo, etc. should review the viability of this proposed offline payment protocol

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Agreed.

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Looks like a solution in search of a problem.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > (some of this is based on a POC that plowsof made in like 4hrs)

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the problem is defined - and you have to solve it - like one of those "you're in a room with x y z, figure it out"

< d​oedl...:zano.org > will need key image ....

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > why am i in a room, where am i

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Plowsof created a poc for this already and it works, but this proposal is overcomplicated

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Plowsof's doesnt require client running sentry or towerr or whatever. Just an nfc card

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i think we can move on

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thank you for the feedback once again

< r​ucknium:monero.social > or tobtoht could be good, too.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > #plowsofDoesntLikeTheSpotlight

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > loll

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > g. dmvp2p: Donate Monero Via P2Pool

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > #ofrnxmrWriteInCamelCase

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > This one's interesting.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > i like the idea

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > I don't know enough about p2pool to comment though.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > simple, and straightforward, worth a shot imo

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > i left my comments on the proposal. tldr: nobody will use this. It makes more sense to send a donation manually

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > users .json , a list of projects and addresses added to gupaxx is all you need imo

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > i left my comment against ofrnxmr here. tldr: stop being grumpy, people could use it, and nothing guarantee that it will never be

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > which has the bonus raffle https://xmrvsbeast.com/p2pool/

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Durong kayaba's xmrchat on monerotalk ppl were donating $5+. This hopes to donate 0.0003xmr ... its spam outputs that are traceable

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Just mine to your own address and send the funds like a normal person

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > ah, xmr community always in ux spoilsport

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > fair point

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > gupaxx dev is currently unfunded (after one bounty claimed) >rust also<

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > p2pool mining requires ppl to share main addresses, which makes donations traceable on chain. It takes like 6-12hrs for someone with reasonable hashrate to donate 0.0003xmr

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > did i mention gupaxx was rust

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > only Rust software in the xmr ecosystem

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > leaving this one open for feedback and moving on?

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > its more private and less troublesome and more profitable if someone just mines to their own address and donates on their own

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Also an extra piece of software for this doesnt make sense. Why not integrate into gupax(x)

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > users .json > mine to address > and participate in raffle 🤷

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Low on time, feel free to move on

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > h. Funding Proposal for Unstoppable Wallet: Enabling Native Monero Integration on iOS & Android

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Drop milestone 1 (200xmr) else NACK

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > rbrunner7 has left a comment on this which seems to capture the overall sentiment i've seen

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Seems fair.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > I've used Unstoppable Wallet for a year, it's a great wallet

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I'll reiterate that I doubt dmvp2p would create more XMR donations than it consumes. Maybe it would have some value as an awareness tool

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > these guys strung us along for yrs and rejected assistance, now they want 200xmr to pay us any attn

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > FWIW, Unstoppable project/team are great. I just don't think the proposal is merge-worth as is.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > 200 extra*

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > Please note, they received a payment from ElectricCoin company for ZCash integration

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > I don't know the back story, but 400 XMR for just another basic Monero wallet doesn't feel right.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Did they reject assistance? I am unaware

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > not to my knowledge

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > they have always put XMR in their roadmap but pushed it for years

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > FWIW, Unstoppable project/team are great. I just don't think the proposal is merge-worthy as is.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > I had spoken to them years ago, many times, and they always pushed monero back. I still have the wallet installed and was one of my favorite (reproducible) multiwallets.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I do not like this Unstoppablke Wallet proposal and I don't think any modifications to it would change my view.

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > It's a great multicoin wallet. I just wouldn't use it for XMR.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > (have we had confirmation from their team that they made this proposal and it isnt kewbit)

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > On github. Offered them assistance and they always saod theyd look into it next sprint

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > could start there lol

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > s/rejected/never accepted

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > So i'm NACKING the R&D portion of the proposal. The D in R&D means development, and the R was offered

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > funding amoutns need to be changed, definitely , moving on>

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i. Revuo Monero Maintenance (2025 Q1)

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > If they drop the r&d ms, its a +1 from me

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > im against rottenwheel

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > bring the guns big boy

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Fuzzstone has been following the requests for years as well

< plowsof > https://www.revuo-xmr.com/ as linked at the start of every meeting

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > rottenwheel threatened to push me into the backroom of MK25.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > I believe this contractor have irrevocably and definitely lost trust

< plowsof > backroom or backrooms

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > both

< r​ucknium:monero.social > The Unstoppable Wallet proposal could be better as a Bounty. That way, anyone could write an implementation to add it to the wallet, not just the Unstoppable Wallet team.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > twice the enjoyement

< plowsof > :-o

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > @ruck*

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > Rucknium: not guaranteed they accept it tho

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > He's a naughty kitten, likes to play a lot, so I'll be doing him in both. 😏

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Interesting idea.

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > Anyways, can we actually +1 or -1 the proposal, sers?

< plowsof > merge/close Revuo? has positive comments and updoots

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > +ed25519_base_point

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I mean, get someone who already knows how to add XMR to a wallet instead of having to train up the Unstoppable devs

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > are you happy ?

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > Rucknium i believe two reason is actually pushing unstoppable wallet to this (reasonably too expensive) proposal:

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > - They have always notated that XMR would cause architectural changes because of how other blockchain do not require the same scanning and tx construction as XMR.

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > - They actually received a ZCash fund for ZCash integration and might consider privacy coins as cash cow.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > ok nobody gave revuo the +1 here , moving on

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > MERGE

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > MERGE IT I SAID +ED25519 BASE POINT

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > Come onnnn.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > ok ok

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > UW is a bit diff

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Definitely looks like a cash grab.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I don't like the precedent of a CCS to add Monero to a multi-coin wallet. And the initial budget request suggests either overcharging or inexperienced devs. Or maybe the Monero codebase it really bad (which is sort of true), but there are libraries now that I hope would make it easier. And importing those libraries would avoid tx uniformity defects that custom implementations can produce.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > hello monerobull btw

< m​onerobull:monero.social > Hello

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > no way monderbull is alive

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Nah, its because they only know utxo and evm chains

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > They have spent like 4yrs hallucinating about privacy

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > When speaking to them they were confused looking for spv. They thought monero was another btc fork

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > also made a draft merge request which is, well, a draft k. Draft: Newyears resolutions

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Its obvious they only know evm and utxo

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > AOB?

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Monero doesn't seem like right fit in UW, but I like the idea of making this a bounty instead of CCS.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Also their wallets are multicoin abd share 12/24 word seeds. Adding monero would have to do like ledger or bsx, and derive monero private key from the main wallet seed

< m​onerobull:matrix.org > I requested to close my CCS https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/476

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Is it just me or did msg send twice 🤔

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > a question is still do they plan on lws for full

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Is it just me or did msg send twice 🤔edit: just me

< m​onerobull:matrix.org > I think funding wallet integrations before fcmps is a waste of funds

< m​onerobull:matrix.org > Since they'll definitely ask for funding again once fcmps are live

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > most wallets use the wallet api straight from monero

< plowsof > sorry for going over, and thank you all for attending, a soft ending to the meeting

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Its not like they have to reinvent the wheel everytime. They just update the monero dependency

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > The proposal sounds like a totally basic implementation, with only one advanced feature: manual fee selection.

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > (fcmp might be more involved, idk)

< 3​21bob321:monero.social > Rip sdk

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > I hope you didn't imply I was the someone who 'bullied' you. I'd be very disappointed if you getting called out is considered bullying in your head...

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > thanks plowsof

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Manual fee selection should be 100xmr on its own frfr /s

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Thanks plow

< d​oedl...:zano.org > consider manual fee selection

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > Would be awesome if you don't renew the proposal, if that is the case. 👍

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > also monerobull i left a comment

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > Also, you shouldn't type closing... That's requesting payment...

< o​frnxmr:xmr.mx > Closing out*

< r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org > Closing would be you giving up on the project and offering the funds to be repurposed...

< plowsof > closing out as our jeffro would say

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