Sidebery features or better integration #891
Replies: 17 comments 51 replies
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Just so no one gets confused, this was copied over from a GH Issue (#114) and is NOT the Maintainer stating the above ;-) This was another user and Mauro copied it over from GH Issue to a GH Discussion (here). |
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Wondering if there are any updates on the Tab Grouping feature-set and/or if there is anywhere we can "follow" to see progress? Thanks! |
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I for one would ask for a rethink, to rather have tab groups than tree style tabs. This would also fit better the vertical tab layout, as by default it is collapsed. |
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@ChristinWhite I hadn't thought of tree style tabs as almost an accessibility option re: ADHD, but it really is. I don't think I've ever been able to truly organize my thoughts and workflow and have that reflected in a browser - until I tried TST and Sideberry. I feel far more productive, and the low level anxiety I'd get just trying to stay organized and on task with a flood of tabs is gone. I tend to think sequentially and having nested tabs just flows so smoothly for me. I had the same experience as you when thinking to move to Vivaldi - it's a great browser, but man was tab organization poor (for me) after Sideberry. Zen is fantastic otherwise and I'll switch full time the day something like this is implemented. Split tabs, the look, the speed, responsiveness - I'd really rather use Zen. ArcWTF+Sideberry is awesome, but kinda janky feeling at times. |
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@GitMurf It's been a couple of years since I used Arc as my primary browser, given their lack of respect for users, but I don't think so. I just fired it up briefly and didn't see a setting for it, I might have missed it, however. The browser that really got me on board with that was Sigma OS, but it was limited by only one level of nesting, Sidebery is where I figured out how essential it was. @mnadam-sudo It really took me a while to figure out why it made such a difference, but I've been thinking a lot about how workflow, user customizability vs opinionated design and how much organization in general intersect with accessibility for neurodiversity. This UI pattern in browsers and other productivity has become one of the biggest examples for me. Vivaldi is a great browser, tab groups in it were what started me to rethink how I use browsers, but I feel like they stopped pushing those features forward, and it's since got surpassed by many other browsers now. I agree, I'll switch to Zen as soon as this feature and 1Password support show up (or I switch password managers). |
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@ChristinWhite "given their lack of respect for users" wow! I thought I was the only one who thought that. I stoped using arc as well for exactly that reason, but now I'm finding it very hard to find a replacement as I totally need groups. I'm using Firefox with sideberry (totally cool), but it also has some issues such as it takes much work to to get it to match the browser theme. |
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@cmdillon Yeah, there's not a lot of people who feel that way but that I've seen, but there are a few. Someone on the Sigma OS Slack characterized them as "arrogant" and I think that fits pretty well. FF and Firebery gets close and thank god, I don't have to spend time every week re-opening 'automatically closed tabs' but it did take a lot of work and still isn't perfect, I’m very hopeful Zen will be the replacement we've been wishing for. There seem to be a lot of current or former Arc users in these discussions hoping for the same thing. |
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@ChristinWhite |
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Sidebery integration would be amazing. So much options for a tailored browsing experience. Floorp is still my main only because of Sidebery. I also have hundreds of tabs, all organized in trees, and Snapshotted for import. This feature pretty much replaced bookmarks for me. If Zen can import Snapshots from Sidebery, I'd be a very happy man! |
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I think that implementing features would be a better way to go (at least when talking about tree-style tabs) as integration can be more clunky. |
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Similarly interested in Zen, but currently sticking to floorp due to Sidebery support. Without sidebery or similar features I feel drastically hindered. I have no opinions on improving support for plugins like Sidebery or reimplementing those features. Below are my must haves:
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The mod doesn't seem to hide the Zen sidebar now. It's empty but still takes up the space. (Or maybe this is how it's always intended to work?) |
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Is there a way to migrate Tree Style Tab to Sidebery? I really need tree tabs and if Sidebery integrated into the Zen sidebar offers me that, I don't mind migrating, but I do need a way to migrate. Ideally, though, I would love to see tree tabs natively without any mods. |
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Did zen recently integrate Sidebery?!! I haven't seen that yet. |
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There's mod on Zen Mods. |
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@Vistaus it is broken on latest version of zen 🤧 |
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Just to add to the discussion, for me there's one more thing that is important. I need tabs to be structured for two reasons:
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Also on floorp until this is better integrated. For me I use the sidebar extensively and currently in Zen it is taken over by sidebery |
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@mauro-balades any updates on tree style tabs (natively!) for zen on mac/windows? |
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@mikedlr why the thumbs down? |
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Just on the pinging developers with @mentions .. it's open source. We aren't paying and we are getting something for free without adverts. They'll get round to dealing with our problems when they feel like it and if we want it faster we should start trying to learn how to help. |
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@mikedlr He was only asking if there was an update, i.e. if there was anything new to mention, not for development to go faster or anything. So your post doesn't make any sense. And what do you mean “we aren't paying”? So the whole Patreon thing is a sham? Because AFAIK, you actually do pay there to support the development. |
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@mikedlr I never asked them to "hurry up the proccess of making x feature", I was just wondering about the status of tree tabs. Why does this bother you when you weren't @mentioned, and you're not a contributor to Zen Desktop? If the devs have an issue with me asking the progress of a feature, then they can explicitly tell me. |
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Given atm there's several separate GitHub items / issues / threads all related to the concept of "Sidebery in Zen", "Tab Groups", "Tree Style Tabs in Zen", etc, i'm posting this remark into each of them... it would be easier to follow, IMO, if only one GitHub item / issue / thread existed, but that's not how it is atm, so we have this confusing fragmentation. Dear @mauro-balades , thank you so much for all your brilliant work so far, it's amazing, & a beautiful gift to us. I read all the latest posts in the Zen subreddit each day, all the Zen Browser posts/toots in the fediverse, & often look thru the GitHub Issues. Especially from the subreddit recently i'm growing discomforted by the apparent direction you might be going in, & numerous other users seem to be urging you in, regarding tab management. In my Firefox-Nightly, Firefox, Floorp & Zen, i have profiles respectively assigned to use the native vertical tabs capabilities such as they currently exist, & other profiles assigned to disabling the native tabs & using the brilliant For those reasons, months ago i was thrilled & encouraged by this subreddit comment of yours:
I don't know ofc, but i substantially fear, that both Floorp & even the excellent Zen Browser might be simply going to adopt Mozilla Devs' uninspiring non-tree single-level tab groups once that design stabilises into Firefox-Release version. Lots & lots of recent subreddit chatter, by numerous other users, but also by some comments & pictures from you iirc, have given me this fear. So, i ponder this impertinent question for you pls; is it still your intention to incorporate native vertical tab trees per that August subreddit? If not, are you aware of any design plans you currently envisage that would prevent users unable to give up full Sidebery functionality, from running it still in future Zen? [eg, since last week, though Sidebery itself still works well in Firefox-Nightly, its primitive native vertical tabs can no longer be completely hidden, only collapsed, which is inelegant & inefficient given it robs otherwise useful horizontal pixels from the browser pages]. Thank you. |
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I as well really hope nested vertical tabs (sidebery style) is still on the table. This is the single feature that will determine which browser I use moving forward. |
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@guigirl42 you mentioned before in this comment that there are a bunch of issues related to this. Could you please point to the ones you think are important? |
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I'm not sure i understand exactly what you're asking me. Is there some part of my other comments in this thread where my meaning / explanations were unclear? Given atm i can't answer you more directly til i know exactly what you're asking me, i'll just include the remarks below... which might or might not help. Since i first created my OPs on wanting Sidebery-integration in Zen...
...my attitude to Zen has changed considerably, & not for the better. The Dev iirc afaict entirely fails to engage in THE central question here, NONE of my & our questions get replied-to at all wrt Sidebery. Instead, all i see for multiple Zen updates now for months is a litany of "idiosyncratic" UI design changes that do nothing for my fundamental objective of choosing a default web browser; its efficiency at helping me manage my daily & historical web browsing efficacy. There are two major aspects of this either currently afaict ignored by the Dev, or otherwise have been actively rejected by them:
Using |
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Sidebery is cool and all, as I stated here in a previous thread. it's the best tab solution for Mozilla based browsers, but it's missing one main thing—tab group syncing. tab group syncing is supper important especially if you are using more than one device, as I do. I have a laptop and desktop device and got totally frustrated with not having my tabs synced so I moved on to edge. Microsoft edge has tab groups that sync across devices, but it does not have deep nesting of groups—that's the tradeoff. so if tab groups does come to zen—then please add syncing of tab groups. I'm still using zen, but unfortunately not as my daily driver—waiting for tab groups and their syncing... |
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I am in the same boat. I have been using firefox less and less because of how simpler my life is with edge synchronizing my tabs. I really miss the tree structure as well and occasionally check if I can find a firefox based solution that will have both syncing workspaces and the tree structure. |
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Totally agree, it's incredibly convenient
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Would it be possible to support/utilize the native Firefox tab groups currently in development? It's very similar to Chrome tab groups and available in the Nightly version, or can be manually enabled via about:config. Works well with horizontal tabs in Firefox but has issues with vertical tabs in Zen. The groups don't visually collapse, and when a tab outside the group is closed while in a collapsed state, the browser crashes or displays a black screen (GIFs below). Support for this would be great. user_pref("browser.tabs.groups.enabled", true);
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@guigirl42, could you please share ideas on how to completely hide the native sidebar in Firefox Nightly? I see that Firefox Nightly has implemented vertical tabs pretty well. But I want to completely hide the native sidebar and use Sidebery. |
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@TheFuzzStone Check here: |
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No, that mod broke several months ago, so i used other workarounds, which later also broke. Since 21/11/24 i had used https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/blob/master/chrome/hide_tabs_toolbar_v2.css, & it worked perfectly. Then on 29/11/24, |
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@guigirl42 @TheFuzzStone Well that's the benefit of using Nightly 😄 |
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Ha. Well, lovely news, only a few hours later, the update arrived, & it works fine, ie, now the native horizontal tabbar is once again hidden... https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/blob/master/chrome/hide_tabs_toolbar_v2.css Thank you, @MrOtherGuy 🎉 🥳 👯♀️ |
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I just found out about Zen Browser. And yes, the first thing I did was to see what plans there were to integrate Sidebery into Zen Browser.
Then hopefully the developers have noticed how many people are waiting for Sidebery to be fully integrated. :) |
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I will delete Arc and move to Zen the moment this gets added. |
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I suspect that he's just using compact mode for sidebar + CSS for better Sidebery integration. It's junky and it is one of the main reasons this issue exists. |
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Arc will no longer get new features, and their team have moved on to developing a new browser. |
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I'm using the Sidebery Mod but whenever a new tab opens/closes, Zen's sidebar unhides and hides again (using compact mode). Is there any other workaround or is this a feature and not a bug? (°ー°〃) |
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Uncheck the |
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I have found that its an extension no longer available on the zen mod store. I had that in my other system, which after an import and a line, works fine |
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So apparently they added new setting that allows to completely hide the sidebar in compact mode, so it wouldn't show even on hovering over it. It is available only in v1.8t for now though.
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This is indeed progress, but:
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I think they might have broken the title bar part in 1.8.1, because afair it wasn't the case when I was testing it in 1.8.0 |
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My biggest problem with sideberry is when I drag a window out it doesn't go to where I drag it like the native tab bar does... it just goes right on top of the open browser |
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For me, the biggest annoyances are that it spawns immutable tabs a lot that it won't let me close and which don't exist in Zen's sidebar. So much so that I created a trash panel and just throw broken tabs in there. It also has trouble restoring after restarting Zen or restoring a snapshot to a new window. At a minimum, I usually end up with like 25 extra pinned tabs spawned from the ether, but often time I'll have entire workspaces lose their tabs or a different workspace. Snapshots save the day, but it's a pain to verify everything is there and then kill pinned tabs one-by-one. I don't think this is a sustainable solution, at least in its current form, and it's enough of an issue that I keep thinking about switching back to Firefox. I really hope native functionality appears to replace it soon. |
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Sidebery was written for Firefox originally. Zen is moving very quickly with its development, so I would expect things to break along the way. Personally I've just cloned the Sidebery repo, fixed a few things that annoyed me the most and I'm using this custom version for now. |
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If this along with proper syncing of tree-style tabs / groups (as using Sidebery with multiple devices is a no-go) gets added it will make me instantly switch from Firefox to Zen, looking forward to any progress! |
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and others
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Currently I am making use of the Sidebery extension in regular Firefox, along with the ArcWTF user chrome customisations, as a way to have vertical tabs and group projects (Panels) and different components of those projects (The tree structure and folders). It is currently the best way I've found to manage my tabs, as when combined with Auto Tab Discard and Container Tabs, it essentially means you can just leave everything open, but have it neatly organized.
I really like the direction that Zen browser is going, but I'm missing some key features that are currently stopping me from trying it out full time. I'd love to see some features from Sidebery make their way into the browser.
I believe the only thing missing from Zen, at least at a high level, is a tree style tab layout. I see that Tab Groups are being worked on, but it would be great to have tabs nestable under other tabs, along with nestable groups.
The alternative for me would be better support for Sidebery, as currently, its a bit awkward to try and use it on Zen, as its a sidebar extension. Ideally, I'd want to be able to move the unique Zen buttons, e.g. the Zen Sidebar etc, to another location, such as the top bar or hide them on the right side of the browser, as having a double sidebar is a little awkward.
Thanks for your work so far :)
Reference: https://github.com/kikaraage/arcwtf
~ Created automatically from issue: #114
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